Bottom   :  St. Andrew's   :  Norwich Pubs
Pub Topic

Dove Street   (1 to 9)

2. Parishes : 3. The Dove : 4. Other Names
5. Grapes of Wrath 		  7. Contrary Mary : 8. Re-development
9. The Edinburgh

1. : Street Name

This narrow thoroughfare was
originally called Holtor Lane.
By the time of Samuel King's Map of 1766 it had the
alternative name of Dove Lane. Indeed it is believed
to have had this name by the late 17th Century.

On the face of it, it should be easy to find
a pub accounting for this name change.
The change was unlikely during the brief period
1763 - 1766, so we would expect the
Alehouse Recognizances for 1760 and 1763
to reveal the Dove.
They do not; nor is there a suitable entry for 1806.

It is not inconceivable that the street name came from
the sign of the White Dove where Norwich's first printer
- Anthony de Solempne - opened his printing shop in 1567.
In which case it was not necessarily
a name first derived from a pub.

2. : Parishes

The Northern "half" of the street is in the parish
of St. John Maddermarket, and the Southern in
St. Peter Mancroft.

The above negative findings in the
Alehouse Recognizances depend upon a nil-return
in the North, but also a positive location for the
'Mancroft Dove' - other than in Dove Lane.
The latter is very easily done, as the Old Dove
on Gentlemens' Walk is the sure-fire winner.

Jumping forward to the 1845 Official List removes any
dubiety in the 1806 records, as it clearly shows our pub
in St. John's parish; the brewer being Youngs & Co.

3. : The Dove

The first Directory record is not until 1830
(John Glasscock); but the air of mystery persists,
as there is no further record until 1845.
Even then White's Directory disagrees about
the landlord (John Riches) as against
John Green in the Official List.

Bizarrely, these records of 1845 are the final ones.
The paucity of such records, and the general mystery
and uncertainty may point to the Dove having been a
mere beerhouse for most of its existence.
If so, it must be one of very few beerhouses to give
its name to a street, however short ! (But see para. 1)

4. : Other Names

Other pub-names related to Dove Street are :-
the Grapes, the Vine, the Albert and the Edinburgh.
As we shall see, the Albert was an alias for the Vine.

The important point is that (excluding the Edinburgh)
both pubs fall into a different parish from the Dove,
as the 1845 Official List confirms.

Clearly, both names are almost synonymous :
indicating a fierce rivalry between the pubs -
the Vine being the upstart rival.

5. : Grapes of Wrath

The Grapes is first recorded (as a pub)
in 1836, under John Payne.
He was still there in 1845, the Official List
indicating a Free House.
This ties-in with his status as a Wine & Spirits
Merchant - a business first recorded in 1830, not 1836.

Entries are found for 1850 (Robert Linford) and 1854
(Henry Bowen); but there are no more entries,
except for probable errors (See para.7 below).

 

6. : The Vine

The 1986 Norwich Society Survey
claims a build date of 1786.

This copycat pub first appears in the 1842 Directory
(Rose Garnham) and under two different licensees in
1845 : Walter Roper and Thomas Daniels - the latter
the "Official" one.

By 1850 Daniels was listed at the Albert, and as late as
1859 at the Prince Albert. Thomas having died prior to
1864, Mary A. Daniels was now the licensee.

The Prince had also died in 1861, so the pub name
reverted to the Vine in June 1861 :
too late to catch the Trades Directory.

Mary was in charge until August 1874.

7. : Contrary Mary

The 1868 Directory is very much the "odd woman out"-
showing Mary at the Grapes.
This does seem to be an error; although an
understandable one in the circumstances -
probably derived from the inn-sign.

In this instance the (so-called) 'Grapes' is stated to be
at Number 1 Dove Street i.e. facing the Market Place.
This is a more worrying point, in view of
the current location of the Vine.

The 1883 Directory quotes No. 4, which
(if sequential) accords closely with the current site.

A similar error occurred in 1877, when J. Brett was
listed at 'The Grapes', despite the Licensing Records
showing Thomas Brett at the Vine from 1874 to 1882.

8. : Re-development

Excluding No. 1, all the buildings in Dove Street are
comparatively modern; and most may well date from
the mid-Victorian period 1868 - 1883.
If this is so, the Vine could very well
have been re-located a short distance away.

Buildings on the other, Western side, were
nearly all destroyed in a fire on 1st August 1898.

9. : The Edinburgh

This pub is first recorded in 1868 and had a short
existence. This was because the fire just mentioned
weakened the support for the building.
Although it had been shored up, it collapsed after
four days, just after lunchtime. Four people were
injured, two of them quite seriously; possibly
including the elderly landlady.

The licence was soon transferred to the Festival House
in St. Andrew's Bridge Street. Bullard's Brewery
were quick to purchase the Edinburgh site in 1899,
a few months after the fire.

Clearly this was not in order to re-build the pub.
Instead a promise to purchase had been the means of
persuading the previous owners (YCY) to transfer
their licence to a Bullard's property.

Riddington Young's book implies that the Edinburgh
was on the site of the earlier Dove.
However, there is a "gap" of - at most - 23 years;
but, nevertheless, this may be feasible.
It may be significant that both pubs were
owned by Youngs & Crawshay's Brewery.

Apparently this pub had a unique two-storey vault.

Top